fred, i saw scenes in lebanon that i had not imagined i would ever see in a middle income country. the un envoy then described lebanon as a failed state, at least not yet. he did say it is headed in that direction with a government failing its population. that doesn't believe it will work. and the public's interest that there should be a route ah, hello again. the headlines on al jazeera, the us climate summit, and glasgow has gone into overtime. delegates attempting to reach an agreement on a draft plan to protect the planets. the core aim is to cap global warming at $1.00 degrees celsius. anderson has more from glasgow. we are expecting within the next hour or so a revised text document that is the draft document for the final 7 settlement lea communique, if you will, that will set out changes,

adjustments that could be nuances. that could be more than that. they could be big issues issues such as fossil fuels. rarely have you seen this sort of discussion going on on paper in a un documents at a cop meeting. this issue of fossil fuels, or whether or not was a phase out coal in particular opposition groups in sudan have cultural nationwide protests on saturday against the military takeover. they're specifically opposed to the creation of a new military run ruling council. it excludes any representatives from the civilian forces of freedom and change coalition, which had been sharing power with the military since 2019. the european commission says it won't be intimidated by threats from belarus. thousands of refugees remain stuck at the border with poland. they are caught in the middle of a political stand off, which shows no sign of ending dozens of people remained missing in the eastern democratic republic of congo. 2 days after

a boat capsized and south key through local residence, at 15 bodies were recovered. while 60 people were rescued at least 34 more, our fear dad's leader is of the asia pacific region, a pledged increased cooperation to help the recovery from the covered 1900. pandemic apex summit was hosted virtually by new zealand and came at a time of increasing regional tension, particularly between the us china. donald trump's former top aides, the ban and has been charged with 2 criminal acts for disobeying a congressional order. bannon was summoned to appear at a congressional hearing, investigating the january 6 attack on capitol hill. the committee is trying to determine the causes of the attack that attempted to stop the certification or present biden's election. when those are the headlines inside story is next on al jazeera, the same thing and it's time for a different approach. one that is going to challenge the way you think we're

digital sound bites and we're digging into the issues from international politics to the global pandemic. and everything in between. join me as i take on the live, dismantled misconceptions and debate the contradictions. upfront with me, mark lamond hill, one out there, south africa, lost our parts high president has died at the age of 85 f. w declares was both raised and criticized for his role in and in white minority rule. so what legacy does he leave behind? this is inside story. ah

hello, welcome to the program. i am hashem abala. the death of south africa last wide president has drawn mixed reactions. f w to clack was jointly awarded the 1993 nobel peace prize with nelson mandela for dismantling the system of racial segregation known as apartheid. some praised him for ending white minority rule, while others called him a traitor. south africa continues to be affected by the legacy of apartheid, and it remains one of the most divided and unequal countries in the world. we're bringing our gas in a moment. first for me, the miller looks back of the life of w to clack. this was the moment when south africa last white lead a signal to the end of the party. i wish to put it plainly that the government has taken a firm decision to release mister mandela unconditionally. i'm serious. i'm

sure. in a speech to parliament, frederick velander clerk who f w. as he was known, governor stumbled, he freed nelson mandela and promised equal rights that would lead to south africa the 1st for the democratic elections. ah, if we did not take the initiatives we to, i have no doubt in my mind that we would have reached a point that the majority of all the people in south africa would have taken hands with the total international community. and would have united behind one common goal on that is to overthrow the regime. we avoided that this was the mandela was the nelson mandela: a free man within days, antea party leader nelson mandela, walked 3 off to 27 years in prison. for perfect are we pray for god? god, i think a deeper conservative africana f w was never known as

a reformer but had come to realize in his own words that to cling to power for the white population group means facing the revolution. ah, we must find a way in this company. as blacks, and as whites to live together in this ha, revolution almost came anyway. the black townships erupted in violence. ha, hardline african has threatened bloody revenge. lengthy negotiations resulted in a non racial constitution and mostly peaceful elections. and $9.00 to $9.00 to $4.00 o minions of black people voted for the 1st time endorsing the african national congress and nelson mandela's president. as the man who co wrote the end of a party, the clack shared the nobel peace prize with mandela. he laid

a chair to the global leadership fund, promoting good governance world wide to many within the ranks of his african people . if w was a traitor to the end, history will remember a leader who knew that white supremacy had run its course. asked w to clack, recorded a message just before his death. he apologized to those who felt he hadn't accepted responsibility for the damage caused by racial segregation. let me to day in this last message, to repeat, i without qualification, apologize for the pain and the ha and the dignity and the damage that our product has done to black, brown and indians in south africa, president sit around oppose us as declare helped put south african,

the path to democracy who was a leader or her party that was largely discredited in relation to the role that the national party played in and forcing a party. but he had the courage to step away from the path that his party that he led had embarked upon. ah, let's bring in our guess. all of them are joining us from johannesburg. tim b suffolk, who day is a senior research fellow at after kasia dialogues. kim halla is a political analyst and author of no white lies, black politics and white power, and mozilla laquatta, president of congress, all the people and a member of south african parliament wall. welcome to you,

all the missa. why is it that people in south africa continued to be divided about the legacy of the clack? whoa, former present to click has been a device of figure for the fact that he was the leader of the national park to which was enough to canna terminated political party. it was inevitable that he, at his death he will caught a divided opinion and dare him being the last update president. again, it became very obvious that at his death he was lately, almost likely to court or controversy. but importantly, is bad. the majority of south africans lived through very difficult times during a party, and it was part and parcel of unfortunate or yes, he did. later on, initiate political discussions with the african national congress led by

a nelson mandela which actually granted to embed state as of being ever concealer. but the majority of the people in south africa, i still remember him as one of the architects and perpetrators of all of those crimes against humanity in a position which later in his life, refused to accept. and hence the controversy and that surrounded him just before his death, kim, frail and sick. he made that statement at the end of his life, saying that i apologize to those who fell there. i didn't come about still in the most, in the strongest possible terms to denounce what happened in the past. but the general sentiment remains the same. the clack missed an opportunity to denounce appetite. yes, thank you. i think if somebody does, i'm very district how the media is covering the days of this because he was sidney

. no sir. he was a murderer. that's all of a party regime that shattered the lives of 1000000 next african. and he had that unity to apologize. and he never took accountability. so the son of one of the victims that killed when he used to be sure that that's a great pity that ever happened to account for the great people of the country. and i would not accept apologies, in fact, in law, and indeed he subscribed to the tip of the printer because apology speech, he actually opinion and closer to the agency and critically in the government about to run the country. i mean the arrogance of

a man in like any day. and i agree with the same 2 minutes of the need to see africanist consciousness. not every day we should be morning and should be with the families of south africans. second main the that the mentioned not very on south african soil. he put in the not the african seat that she bought. the black family still do not know today remains of the children big brother the father and mother have been very result in w, mozilla. the fact that south africans remained divided by this legacy one who some people say that this is someone all over. so the transition to democracy other say no, this was, this was someone who was instrumental in the continuation of the segregationist

system of apartheid. what does it tell about south africa? does it say anything about the fact that the wounds of the past still remain there in your country? i think is very important there. when we look at the life of a single individual who of yours, there was a very important position towards the end of his life to see what should he have prioritized in the closing years of our lives, live prisons were a mom concerned about how to get out of the trip that accommodated, placed one of us, many people had already lost their lives along the road. we travelled, but there was low. so huge risk that if we didn't manage

the transition out of our date, we could also contribute it to the deaths of millions of black white colored indian sections of the population. so the tries, we had to make was to manage the transition sites that we save as many lives as was possible and save as an opportunity that could make it possible for us to reconstruct requests to ag. so if again, society and enable us to join the community of nations in a manner that youth for ever it be a declaration rather than okay, a disaster or of us 10 better in i think we okay,

see your point 10 percent good. this, this, the, this, this argument that at least that transition saved us from a descent into anaki and a civil war. should it be seen as a credit for some more like f w, declare not entirely, but suffice to say that he was much more braver than many of his predecessors who took a much more difficult decision whether it was coin to do or because of agency or not, but it did take that decision, but the contribution towards the realization of freedom in south africa, i don't think, can be attributed to f. w. if debra to clack, or a north africana leaders, it was as a result of the continued pressure from the liberation movement, such as the in c benefit of congress and others who pushed the african government

to eventually concede that it was inevitable for them to begin to embraced a new police culture church. it managed somehow to take a difficult position or pursuing a constructive democratic negotiations with the black leaders. kim mikhail gorbachev was a chairman of the communist party leader of the soviet union. but he is mostly remembered by introducing perestroika and glass knows that they've the way to the end of the, the silver to the cold war. now it comes to declare, do you think that if he had come out and said, i am so i'm sorry, but apartheid was a crime against humanity that would have made a massive change on the perceptions of the people that have about him. yes, but you know, apologies are not enough. and what's other pickens in this country and it's leaders

have apologize and made bigger issues and believe it today is not a nation or not. i think it's the fact that for the majority of americans, they remain lantus in the land has never been with the economy. coaches are devastated with all of us in the world. so what's a good explanation, like it should have done as well as what is to structure he's trying to hold the economy to return certain land to transform economic and put it in the hands of people. but that has not happened. so an apology alone, not sufficient. it would be a geniune,

reparations for the most grievous that it becomes on the back of interest. and i just want to say something, you know, we like the street and it's very dangerous. he will see your pocket regime head legitimacy, internal. it was international creation. it was a racial movement as a to b as a force. so even on monday, the secret is actually about the fact that it made these reforms. so they africa could be included in the new to it and that is the truth that we should be rocking. mozilla was his passing mean for the theatre of south africa. is it likely to further raise the debate about how to move forward and turn the chapter of the years of apartheid

menu of ours who embraced will embrace the resolution of our country here. believed that even gave us the opportunity to preserve available resources and yours and bout to educate and train large sessions or for the population of our country. so that we could use them and use their capacities to reconstruct our society and rebuild it on the foundations of what we inherited from their budget for them. for no one can deny that there. we inherited the country with significant infrastructure

on which we could have built and advised much, much quicker than most of the african countries and it, and in this way, we would have, would have salvaged huge numbers of the people of our country. and we would have made quite since what seemed to be a bit worse situation. we would have moved it was march. first i could see where you were were were which direction you are going under the expense. let me go to tim bitter, the general frustration in south african, our gas backdrop of the recent municipal elections, particularly against the, the frustration against the eye and see does it, does it give us any indication about the tough time times a hat for a country like south africa,

while it does give indication of tough times ahead. but it also presents a, another impression which is that the south african democracy is much lori. people now do see alternatives in terms of their political choices. and it was demonstrated during this time around that to most people, although most decided to stay away from from elections. but it is a monitoring democracy. the fact that the ac is losing a majority in terms of control and governing certain when it's a pallet is that it is soft, is a positive, i guess in from african standpoint that when i have this peaceful transitioning into a new political outlook or by the majority of the people in sort of trigger, but i wanna, i want to comment on that the point that was made about if to have the declare king and him being the,

the person who are shot in democracy would have to give him that credit. that he actually assisted mandela's at the same given, although you might, that he disliked the men would took a very and although you might have those who would argue on the other hand that there was some shortfalls to the proved progression to was a democracy. and that the reconciliation was not completed and that the new lot had to be done to try to take the country into a new direction. kim, now we have the passing of the clerk. you have the major setback that the agency suffered. and you have the african south africa, who would say, what i would hope was to see a vibrant democracy. thou could translate into positive outcomes for the south africans what we're seeing instead as a pervasive culture of corruption among the elite, particularly within the agency, living many people to grapple about how to move forward.

i mean, the corruption is a problem that is also not it shouldn't be painted as a black government thing. actually look at the corruption done by business and what governments before. 1998 was grand corruption. i mean, even the ex, nancy country was probably the greatest effect of corrections in this country. let's say i think the agency has lost a plot as are realizing. and i think the problem is more to do with the fact with the national consciousness. because the national consciousness is that we must be consolidation and we accommodate want you to some leg which is me concerning that people with me and what, what a privilege national consciousness which is atlanta jeter. and he does not have a bad part is to the left with black consciousness that there has to be an economy

that suits the black chassis and puts the dignity of the black top. first, we're going to be stuck in the most equal society in the world. so the time for now is to face the inconvenient to if there was no real transformation pneumatic in the ship. but for the majority of people, the constitution has not helped them. they live charlotte landreth and deep poverty . marcella if you look at the outcome of the latest municipal elections, you will see that and see was not the only one to suffer. setback. the democratic alliance itself failed to gain momentum. what is quite interesting is that the if, if earth, the economic freedom fighters or the action as a, a gaining momentum, which could give you an indication of the south africa, is moving towards what could be turning also the chapter via and see itself. oh,

look there, the unfortunate thing is that i do the new circumstances that if i listen in our country, do not a favor any particular party. it's actually heating an all of us that we we should have. well, we should have rallied together and take full advantage of the opportunity of using resources to the benefit of all of us. we still did try to have sessions that won't give this for themselves section that one that for themselves. and this continued division, or solver for against society on that basis or what happened in the 1st is not to our advantage. why is to i rented is if we can pull or so together and say look, now is an opportunity to for equality. let's give everybody in the same and equal

opportunity. speaking about it then equality, i me go to tim, visit him beside. he said that this is a, an indication that the country is maturing. that democracy is maturing. his south africa. but do you think that south africa is ready for the concept of a government of a coalition government? well, at the national level, i'm no cut so at that of the ready. but at the municipal level they've already started negotiation. not only this election, but in a bit of a selection, so they are ready for that. but for me, what's encouraging is the willingness of the bigger parties to accept defeat intercept that they have to enter into negotiations with one of parties. but i like to disagree with you, i should, when you said that the action essay and e f, f i showing that they're moving much more strongly the other much is i don't think so. even if it has not been given a clear mandate by anyone to run

a municipality compensated but it should say, because then you give them a blog and have managed a number of, of votes, but no question whether the f f is growing and that is a flavor it to us a phase who remains a very strong party, but for me to pull a reservation within the blue cross space in south africa is quite encouraging. and a lot of people are kind of disgruntled by what's going on. but i think for an african country to have such a vibrant democracy in a buyer and competition of political power is quite encouraging. ladies and gentlemen, really appreciate your time. unfortunately, we're running out of time. but i promise you next time will we be able to have another to so to talk about our south africa and is future tim busy for could it can hello and mozilla gyla patrick lakers. i really appreciate your insight and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash a jane sites where you can also join the conversation on twitter. i'll 100 is at

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